00:03:
Hello and welcome to this special edition of the Blue Space brought to you by
00:09:
Standard Bank Corporate and Investment Banking.
00:11:
I'm Joanne Joseph.
00:13:
What role has the B20 played in putting Africa's economic goals firmly on the
00:17:
world stage?
00:19:
Let's find out from the B20 Local Business Advisory Council Chair and CEO of Business
00:23:
Leadership South Africa,
00:25:
Bussisiwe Mavuso, and and Standard Bank's executive head of international trade,
00:30:
Lutando Voba,
00:32:
welcome to you both.
00:34:
Lovely to see you both again.
00:36:
We see I'm going to kick off with you.
00:38:
What is the B20 and what does it actually do?
00:40:
Yes, so the B20, Joanne, is the business arm of the G20.
00:44:
And what we discuss in the B20 are economic policies that are meant to drive
00:51:
global growth and global development.
00:53:
I think the biggest misconception that it has been in South Africa is that this is
00:57:
meant to be a B2B.
00:59:
platform and it is not.
01:01:
I think the fact that the B20 is being hosted in South Africa doesn't change
01:04:
their agenda.
01:06:
The issues that we still discuss there are still global issues.
01:07:
The only advantage that we have is that as South African business leaders,
01:13:
we get to chair the different task forces.
01:15:
There's been eight task forces and in chairing the task forces, it therefore
01:22:
means you get an opportunity to influence their agenda.
01:24:
You get the opportunity to put on the table the issues that are pertinent and
01:27:
that are important to you.
01:29:
as a country, as a continent, and as the broader global south.
01:30:
And I really think that our business leaders have done a brilliant job of
01:37:
precisely surfacing the issues that are important for South
01:39:
Africa, not just for South Africa, for the broader African continent, as well as the
01:42:
global south.
01:44:
When we took over the presidency at the beginning of the year, we were very clear
01:49:
at your end that we want to make this an Africa P20 because
01:51:
South Africa is the only African country in the G20 membership.
01:53:
So it was important that we actually fly the flag.
01:56:
not just for South Africa, but for the broader continent.
01:58:
I mean, that sounds absolutely brilliant.
02:00:
Lutando, eight task forces that Busi has alluded to there.
02:04:
What were the toughest challenges they've had to tackle over the last year?
02:08:
I think the B20 process, it's 20 countries.
02:16:
It is across different time zones, it's different interests, it's developed
02:21:
economies,
02:23:
it's emerging and developing economies or markets.
02:25:
And you're having all of that have to confluence on what do we say about finance
02:30:
and infrastructure?
02:32:
What do we say about just energy transition?
02:33:
And so I like what Borges said, the chair of the World Economic Forum at the opening
02:40:
ceremony,
02:42:
that at times you're going to disagree.
02:43:
At times there's going to be disengagement or disagreement.
02:48:
But stay the course because through that discourse, debate and really getting the
02:54:
different views.
02:56:
that we land at what actually is the policy recommendation,
02:58:
actually enriches what goes then into the G20 and what they debate and discuss
03:05:
further and can advance as then the
03:07:
country governments that are in the process.
03:07:
I mean, that's great.
03:09:
How successfully have previous host countries managed to get their priorities
03:16:
onto the Global 20 agenda in regard
03:18:
to the B20 in particular?
03:20:
What's been great to observe in the previous G20s, especially the Global South
03:23:
countries,
03:25:
There's been a very intentional policy recommendation at looking at
03:30:
infrastructure development and policy that
03:32:
advances SME participation in the economy.
03:33:
Because when you look at SME participation, which accounts for over 50%
03:40:
of employment in most economies, and in Africa that's about 80%,
03:42:
it is really where the focus should be on how do we optimally ensure that both a
03:46:
policy and from a business,
03:48:
we are driving an operating environment or markets where SMEs one day survive better.
03:53:
but also there's opportunities for them to grow.
03:56:
So I think that's been very great to observe.
03:58:
And, you know, India going to Brazil.
04:01:
And before India, it was Indonesia. And obviously after Brazil, it was South
04:05:
Africa.
04:05:
So that's been very good to observe.
04:07:
And I think as South Africa, we've continued that and spread that on to look
04:13:
at how, you know, we continue that as a theme.
04:15:
And I understand, Busi, that you've already put 30 policy recommendations
04:18:
forward to the G20.
04:20:
Which of those do you think could bring about the most positive change for African
04:23:
businesses?
04:25:
You know, if I can probably maybe just highlight two, the one that I'm excited
04:29:
mostly about is the one recommendation that came from
04:31:
Trade and Investment, which talks about the fact that we need to rally as the
04:35:
global economy,
04:37:
we need to rally behind the African continental free trade area to ensure that
04:41:
we unlock this
04:43:
$3.4 trillion market for Africa.
04:46:
So it's very interesting because the global economy also realizes that Africa
04:51:
is the continent of the future.
04:53:
We're sitting with about 1.4 billion people.
04:55:
billion people in the continent at the moment.
04:57:
We're going to be sitting at 2.7 billion in 2050.
04:58:
Capital globally is looking for markets.
05:01:
Africa is the market of the future.
05:03:
25% of the world's population is going to be coming from Africa in 2050.
05:08:
So it makes sense, you know, for them to definitely look at Africa's development
05:14:
and look at how Africa is
05:16:
actually supported, you know, in as far as this development journey is concerned.
05:19:
I think the other one came from the task force that Lutando participated in of
05:26:
finance and infrastructure.
05:28:
Therein we are looking at how do we actually bring in the cost of capital down
05:33:
for African countries, you know,
05:35:
for developing countries, for global south countries?
05:37:
How do we actually ensure that these countries are supported by these
05:43:
multilateral agencies?
05:45:
How do we ensure that the multilateral agency funding is actually made more
05:50:
accessible to help
05:52:
Africa, to help the global south, you know, so that the infrastructure deficit
05:56:
and the infrastructure challenges?
05:58:
that are actually existing in the continent and in the product global south
06:02:
are actually paid attention to.
06:04:
Certainly, and I mean we're so impatient for it to happen, Lutando.
06:06:
Which policy recommendations do you think the G20 could immediately implement to
06:13:
benefit the global business community?
06:15:
The one I want to highlight is how do we create more investable projects?
06:18:
In other words, where do projects fail?
06:20:
And a lot of it is around the technical assessment and pre-project work and how do
06:25:
we get that right?
06:27:
And then how do we mobilize more capital towards that?
06:28:
And it is to say, governments, how do you review, one, the Basel III rules on what
06:35:
you expect, you know,
06:37:
the financial institutions to be holding as capital?
06:38:
You know, that was instituted, you know, for a certain time.
06:41:
It's been quite a period since then.
06:44:
So I think it's not just, oh, let's do this.
06:47:
But there are very practical mechanisms that we have put forward.
06:51:
And these are things that can be implemented immediately.
06:54:
It doesn't require too long processes.
06:56:
It's not too medium term.
06:58:
These are really immediate maneuvers that can be done.
07:00:
And I mentioned SA already has the policy, you know, that is allowed within the PFMA,
07:07:
the public-private partnership.
07:09:
And how do you then start to create attractive, impactful projects that
07:13:
philanthropic capital wants to move towards?
07:15:
So we can talk about education, which is one of the task forces it's focused on.
07:17:
We can talk about just energy transition, which is another task force focus.
07:21:
and you know How do you start to mitigate the climate change piece while ensuring
07:28:
you enable
07:30:
access to energy?
07:32:
Because that's still a big, big challenge on the continent.
07:34:
You're not going to realize a free trade area effectively if you don't have energy
07:39:
and infrastructure, critical infrastructure, especially roads,
07:41:
rail, and your ports.
07:43:
So how do you get those in place?
07:44:
And those are impactful when you speak to what philanthropic capital is keen to move
07:49:
towards.
07:49:
But this is a mechanism on how to do it.
07:51:
And I think, Busi, what Lutunda has said that kind of leads into my next question
07:58:
to you, which is how do the continent's business leaders,
08:00:
policymakers, global investors ensure that momentum is maintained after the G20
08:04:
summit is over?
08:06:
Yeah, absolutely.
08:08:
And I think this is the brilliance of what we did as South Africa.
08:09:
We were very deliberate and intentional about ensuring that we bring
08:15:
recommendations or we put recommendations across
08:17:
which are executionable, you know, which are implementable.
08:20:
So we didn't just focus on the what, we also focused on the how.
08:24:
Because as we looked at what has been done with previous B20s, we saw that there were
08:29:
a lot of recommendations.
08:31:
Some of them might have actually been adopted by the G20, you know, but you look
08:34:
at,
08:34:
so once this has been adopted, how do you then implement it?
08:39:
So I think the practicality, you know, of how to actually put what we have
08:46:
recommended and put across in place is
08:48:
definitely important.
08:50:
And I think that is precisely the...
08:52:
beauty about what we have done, but precisely because from a B20 perspective,
08:56:
this is being co-hosted by BUSA and PLSA.
08:58:
The work that we've done is therefore going to be institutionalized.
09:00:
You know, the fact that you've got the local business advisory council, which I
09:05:
chair, which is the
09:07:
South African CEOs, about 15 of them, you know, who have actually been working with
09:12:
the B20 steering committee,
09:14:
sitting behind closed doors, and I think sitting in the engine room ensuring that
09:19:
the work that is being done.
09:21:
aligned to businesses on the ground, you still have that institutional memory.
09:24:
You know, the fact that you have Lutando and the South African CEOs who have been
09:30:
leading these task forces means that we still remain,
09:32:
you know, with that intelligence and with that institutional memory.
09:34:
So it then becomes easy for us to actually pick up from where we are actually going
09:40:
to live this off, you know, in November.
09:42:
Actually, there's not going to be even living off of anything, Lutando.
09:43:
We're actually just going to continue once we hand over to the U.S.
09:46:
on the 1st of December.
09:48:
the work still continues because we are also saying as Musa and Piela say, What
09:53:
are the two, three recommendations,
09:55:
irrespective of what the G20 does, what is it that we'd actually like to take forward
09:58:
as a country?
10:00:
And precisely because there's clarity in terms of how these could be implemented,
10:05:
it's then going to make it easy, you know, for us to actually take those forward.
10:07:
So that is the work that is underway at the moment.
10:08:
To say out of the 30 recommendations that have actually come out,
10:12:
what two or three does South Africa actually want to take forward to ensure
10:18:
that we can actually advance our economy?
10:20:
I just want to add something.
10:20:
Yes, yes, go ahead.
10:21:
Importantly.
10:22:
in being practical and implementable recommendations,
10:26:
very importantly we've built also into these recommendations KPIs.
10:30:
So when the US gets to this period of next year,
10:33:
we're looking at KPIs of what has moved linked to the recommendations that would
10:40:
have come out of the B20 recommendation.
10:42:
I think that's a very important point because also we took off from Brazil and
10:45:
received their KPIs,
10:47:
so there's also a measure that we're going to be doing on based It's in their
10:51:
communities where it's moved and where we haven't had progress.
10:53:
what were the bottlenecks and those also then become key in terms of you know what
10:58:
does the next presidency and
11:00:
then therefore country that takes over b20 need to then look at a review letunda an
11:05:
issue that's close to my heart it's predicted
11:07:
that by 2050 africa will have the largest workforce in the world but we know that
11:11:
we've fallen behind with with
11:13:
education with skills development how's the b20 suggesting that africans work
11:18:
together to upskill this
11:20:
workforce for the future.
11:22:
It's a good one because one of the task forces looks at digital transformation.
11:27:
And one of the key recommendations has been to say there's a lot that can be said
11:33:
around digital transformation, digital technology,
11:35:
whether you're talking about the infrastructure or the software or the
11:39:
advancements of innovation.
11:41:
And they've intentionally said what we need is the education of
11:46:
digital skills advancement.
11:48:
I really look at the education piece to make sure that we are churning out the
11:55:
digital skills or tech skills that we
11:57:
will need to actually absorb that workforce that you've referenced, you
11:59:
know,
11:59:
and of which the majority or as you mentioned, quarter we're coming from here.
12:04:
When I think about that workforce, it has to be very intentional, not just the
12:10:
education, but which skills.
12:12:
The web talks about skills of the future and that keeps shifting, you know, but I
12:16:
think it needs to be very intentional.
12:18:
What does that mean for Africa?
12:20:
And then we look at food security.
12:22:
60% of the arable land is here globally, right?
12:23:
So how do we intentionally look at technology and us getting to smarter
12:28:
farming?
12:30:
Because it's not just going to be about tapping an opportunity to feed the
12:34:
continent, but also feed the world.
12:36:
And I think there's an opportunity to see how we leverage tech to do that optimally.
12:41:
And so I think when we look at that future prediction, these recommendations have to
12:47:
speak about what needs to be put in.
12:49:
place now to make sure that that demographic dividend, as it's usually
12:52:
quoted,
12:54:
is actually absorbed into not just any skill or education,
12:56:
but skills that will matter and actually advance the economies of the continent.
13:01:
Joanne, if I can just add something to that.
13:03:
So I think that is what is exciting for me about this and the focus of it on Africa.
13:09:
Lutando speaks about the demographic dividend.
13:12:
60% of our young people in the continent are under the age of 25.
13:16:
And that is why we call it the demographic dividend.
13:19:
But let's be honest that if you're sitting with 65% with unemployment,
13:26:
as we have in our case in South Africa, where you have more people that are
13:31:
unemployed than those that are employed in
13:33:
all the provinces except Gauteng and the Western Cape, then it's not really a
13:36:
demographic dividend.
13:38:
It's a demographic burden.
13:40:
So unless and until we are very intentional about having interventions in
13:45:
place that are actually going to
13:47:
cultivate.
13:49:
this asset, you know, to ensure that these young people can meaningfully participate
13:52:
in the economy,
13:54:
then we are actually going to be sitting with a burden.
13:55:
So the work that has been done on this front is absolutely important.
13:59:
That is why South Africa, when the B20 leaves, you know, and it's being hosted by
14:04:
America next year,
14:06:
we can't sit and say our work is done, not when we have these brilliant
14:11:
interventions, you know, that have actually been put in place.
14:13:
We have to find a way.
14:15:
of how we actually implement some of these, you know,
14:15:
to ensure that we advance our young people and cultivate them into the asset that
14:21:
they are.
14:22:
Busi, could there be a lasting impact for South Africa now that it's hosted the
14:27:
presidency of the G20?
14:29:
It's precisely going to be how and what we decide, you know,
14:35:
to do with it.
14:36:
Precisely the conversation that we're having, you know, at the moment.
14:39:
What do we want to do with this?
14:42:
rich, you know, and brilliant work that has actually been put together.
14:48:
Because these are not just policy positions, you know, these are...
14:51:
practical interventions that we can actually put in place to deal with our
14:58:
Achilles heel as South Africa
15:00:
and as the African continent.
15:02:
Achilles heel being the stubbornly high levels of unemployment, you know, the
15:06:
stubbornly high levels of poverty,
15:08:
in South Africa's case being the most unequal country in the world.
15:11:
Some final thoughts from you on the outlook for African growth, Lutando?
15:16:
I think it's exciting.
15:17:
You have, out of the 20 fastest growing economies in the world, 10 of them are
15:22:
here.
15:23:
If you've read the news recently about Namibia,
15:26:
which is being projected to be the fastest growing economy in the coming years,
15:32:
oil and gas discoveries that have been made there, we also know that it has the
15:37:
lowest density in the continent.
15:39:
So in terms of not only having all of that opportunity of exploration, et cetera,
15:42:
it's also prime as a destination that will attract expats into that economy.
15:48:
So I think...
15:49:
When you look at the story of Tanzania, they've intentionally looked at the
15:55:
infrastructure investments and how they've been the fastest growing economy, I think,
15:57:
two years in a row.
15:59:
I think the prospects for the continent are great.
16:01:
We just need a very quick, urgent,
16:03:
and very intentional move from our policymakers to start to put policies in
16:10:
place and regulation that enables rather
16:12:
than disable policy enablers that actually make sure that we attract investment
16:16:
instead of becoming
16:18:
less desirable.
16:20:
comes to investments.
16:22:
And actually, interestingly, and one of the things that we try to elevate through
16:25:
this process is to tell the story better.
16:27:
Globally, Africa is actually the region that has the lowest default when it comes
16:30:
to sovereign borrowing.
16:32:
So we often hear about the risk of Africa, but we don't talk about actually African
16:36:
markets are good pay,
16:38:
good repayers when it comes to debt.
16:39:
Well, it really sounds like we have our work cut out for us as Africans.
16:43:
Thank you both so much for that.
16:45:
That is where we wrap it up for today.
16:47:
Thank you to both of you for joining me for this insightful discussion.
16:50:
Bussisiwe Mavuso, the B20
16:52:
Local Business Advisory Council Chair and CEO at Business Leadership South Africa,
16:59:
and Lutando Vuba,
17:01:
Standard Bank's Executive Head of International Trade.
17:03:
We cannot wait to see how this historic opportunity will reshape Africa's position
17:09:
in the global economy.
17:11:
From me, Joanne Joseph, take care till we meet again in the blue space.
17:15:
Visit www.standardbank.com forward slash bluespace to find out more about the blue
17:21:
space.
